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In the first part of this two part series, we discuss the intersectionality of what it's like to be an Asian American female physician, leader, mentor, and some of the joys and challenges involved in getting there, such as the model minority myth, the glass and bamboo ceilings, and cultural stereotypes and biases.
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Show Notes
[0:00] - Introductions
- Dr. Tammy Lin and Dr. Tiffany Leung introduce today’s The DEI Shift topic on the intersectionality of what it's like to be an Asian American female physician + leader + mentor, and some of the joys and challenges involved in getting there, such as the model minority myth, bamboo and glass ceilings, cultural stereotypes and bias.
- An all-Asian American team bringing this episode home!
- Introducing Dr. Antonia Chen
- Dr. Chen’s biography
[02:27] - Dr. Chen's a foodie too!
[2:46-4:21] - Dr. Chen's "Be the Change" segment
- Discusses “model minority myth”, trying not to stick to social norms as a female orthopedic surgeon
- Creation of AAHKS video on “Inclusion and Mutual Respect of Women in the Orthopaedic Workplace”
- Women in Arthroplasty group (only 2.6% women specializing in Arthroplasty)
[04:35-6:55] - Introducing Internal Medicine and HIV Specialist, Dr. Elisa Choi
- Dr. Choi's biography
[07:00-10:33] - Dr. Choi’s remarks about representation
- Appreciation for Pan-Asian crew
- Noticed a lack of Asian American leadership representation in decision-making roles especially in medicine; inspired her to be appointed to positions and Vice- Chair of the student
- “Being the Change” in recent times was an effort to “step up” and represent
[10:33-12:19] - Dr. Choi continues to speak about her experience
- Meeting Tiffany and Tammy complemented to Dr. Choi’s efforts to “Be the Change”
- Gradual effort that has morphed into realization that Asians need to be more vocal
[12:19-12:52] - Tiffany reaffirms statement on need to be intentional
[12:52-14:23] - Tammy congratulates Tiffany on new position and asks Dr. Chen about her journey to her accomplishments
[14:23-18:19] - Dr. Chen recounts influences and inspirations
- Lived in Delaware, relates her childhood story on how a play inspired her to be a doctor, led her to medical school
- “I just want to be a doctor” - a point of branching
- Was told not to be a surgeon, especially as a female. However, she went into orthopaedics because she loved it so much despite what people told her.
- Lack of women in the field, proud of women trying to break the glass ceiling
- “Bamboo ceiling”- a cap for Asian American representation in the spine community
- “Bamboo Ceiling” information: https://www.alliant.edu/blog/bamboo-ceiling-asian-americans-and-myth-model-minority
[18:19-20:36] - Tiffany’s story
- Her father was an orthopedic surgeon and Chinese American immigrant
- Affirms lack of attention given to diversity in leadership for Asians, there is a foundational problem.
- Asks Dr. Choi’s thoughts
[20:36-25:36] - Dr. Choi’s and Dr. Chen’s thoughts on diversity in leadership
- Applauds The DEI Shift for redefining May as “Pan-Asian” Heritage Month
- Has tried to make “Asian” be truly inclusive to all ethnicities of Asian
- Dr. Chen discusses orthopedics and intersecting identities and groups in orthopaedics
- Encouraging to see people come together via societies. Bonds occur between many under-represented groups
- Hoping generations are diversifying in the pipeline
- Some societies don’t collect ethnic data on members, numbers are not high
[25:36-27:33] - Tammy’s thoughts
- AAMC collects data-- 17.1% of the physician workforce are Asian American
- Lack of leadership diversity - Asian Americans getting stuck in the “middle” in terms of advancement. What are the missing factors? Asian diversity in terms of women. Numbers are there, but are the missing “factors”?
[27:33-35:40] - Dr. Choi discusses the “double whammy” for Asian American women
- There is a glass ceiling and a bamboo ceiling (see link above for information on the intersection of these terms). Believes there is both internal and external factors leading to these “factors”
- Believes the “model minority” myth leads to the internalization of Asians feeling complacent and can’t be established in a hierarchy
- Accepting this externally opposed label redefines power structures, need to break out of this stereotype of being “obedient and quiet”
- Implicit bias from external forces: sometimes not viewed as “leadership material” because of these stereotypes
- Deep fear of failure among the community and a sense of being risk averse, there needs to be a willingness to take a risk, not to focus on winning or success
[35:40-42:31] - Dr. Chen’s thoughts on seeing beyond the “Model Minority” myth
- There is a question of “what’s your goal?”, our achievements in life have to do with external influences and innate drive
- External influences come from where we grow up, different goals some want to “push forward” others just want to make money
- Influenced by family
- We need people to mentor and sponsor other Asian Americans
- See beyond the model minority myth
- Not used to self-promoting and self-recognizing that prevents people from going ahead
- To be in a leadership, you may have to take an unpopular stance
- Ingrained to be risk averse through culture
- We need to break through our and other biases that people don’t need to look like each other to have a position of power.
[42:31-46:53] - Dr. Choi discusses how East Asian cultural aspects such as Confucianism and Filial Piety can put Asians at odds of achieving more
- Internalized turmoil if raised in immigrant family structure makes it hards to overcome barriers
- Representation matters to create more opportunities and to set an example
- Advocating for equal representation gives voice to those who can’t speak for themselves
[46:53-50:47] - Practical points and advice from Dr. Chen
- Develop a network to support, challenge and be by your side.
- Find a mentor
- Be a mentor
- In OR, team must introduce themselves by name and position
- Empower others who are “behind us”
- Be an example
- Takes time to develop this, it’s a dynamic process
[51:03-56:46] - Practical points and advice from Dr. Choi
- Be your #1 fan
- Develop your own sense of security and self esteem
- Take a stand and go out on a limb through these reflections
- Recognize when there’s opportunities to improve and make changes
- Be open to listening
- Successful leadership comes from being able to empathize, and a servant for those they are leading
- Speak up and be a voice
- Be willing to expand one’s network outside one’s silos
- Empathize with people from all walks of life
[58:23-59:24] - Conclusion
- Check out companion podcast: "At the Intersection of Asian + American + Male + Physician + Leader "
- Special shout out to mentors, sponsors, advocates, and allies of Pan-Asian physicians
- Social media handles: @thedeishift
- Email: @thedeishift@gmail.com
- www.thedeishift.com
[59:25] - Outro
Special thanks to Dr. Audrey Tsao, ACP Women in Medicine Initiative
Credits:
Co-hosts/Producers: Dr. Tammy Lin, Dr. Tiffany Leung
Executive Producer: Dr. Tammy Lin
Co-Executive Producers: Dr. Pooja Jaeel, Dr. Tiffany Leung
Senior Producer: Dr. DJ Gaines
Assistant Producer: Deepti Yechuri
Editors: Tammy Lin, Deepti Yechuri
Production Assistants: Sanika Walimbe with special thanks to Ann Truong
Website/Art design: Ann Truong
Music: Chris Dingman
