THE DEI SHIFT
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        • WELCOME TO THE DEI SHIFT
      • EPISODE 2 >
        • MEET THE DEI SHIFT: MORNING HANDOFF
      • EPISODE 3 >
        • MENTORSHIP & RECRUITMENT OF URIMS
      • EPISODE 4 >
        • Women in Medicine: "Faces Like Mine"
      • EPISODE 5 >
        • Disparity Exacerbation, Triggered by COVID-19
      • EPISODE 6 >
        • Hidden in the Data: Understanding Bias in Informatics
      • EPISODE 7A >
        • At the Intersection of Asian + American + Female + Physician + Leader (Pt. 1)
      • EPISODE 7B >
        • At the Intersection of Asian + American + Male + Physician + Leader (Pt. 2)
      • EPISODE 8 >
        • Promoting Inclusive Healthcare Environments for LGBTQ Patients
      • EPISODE 9 >
        • The Hidden Curriculum
      • EPISODE 10 >
        • Women Physicians Mid Career Transitions
    • SEASON 2 >
      • EPISODE 1 >
        • Minority Tax
      • EPISODE 2 >
        • A Native Narrative: Caring for American Indian and Alaskan Native Patients
      • EPISODE 3 >
        • Anti-Racism in Healthcare Education
      • EPISODE 4 >
        • Religious and Spiritual Diversity in Healthcare
      • EPISODE 5 >
        • Doctors As Patients
    • SEASON 3 >
      • EPISODE 1 >
        • Voices of URiM Premeds
      • EPISODE 2 >
        • Seize the DEI: Shaping the Future of I.M.
      • EPISODE 3 >
        • Digital Health Equity and Bridging the Divide
      • EPISODE 4a >
        • Food Insecurity- Part 1
      • EPISODE 4b >
        • Food Insecurity- Part 2
      • EPISODE 5 >
        • The Breadth of Addiction Medicine
      • EPISODE 6 >
        • The Power of Primary Care
      • EPISODE 7 >
        • Healthy Policy and Advocacy
    • SEASON 4 >
      • EPISODE 1 >
        • ACP IM 2022 Live
      • EPISODE 2A >
        • Trauma Informed Care Part 1
      • EPISODE 2B >
        • Trauma Informed Care Part 2
      • EPISODE 3 >
        • Pediatric-to-Adult Transitions of Care
      • EPISODE 4 >
        • Medical Misinformation and Disinformation
      • EPISODE 5 >
        • Immigrant/Migrant Health
      • EPISODE 6A >
        • Houselessness Part 1
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​| June 4, 2020 |

EPISODE 7A

At the Intersection of Asian + American + Female + Physician + Leader
LISTEN HERE
In the first part of this two part series, we discuss the intersectionality of what it's like to be an Asian American female physician, leader, mentor, and some of the joys and challenges involved in getting there, such as the model minority myth, the glass and bamboo ceilings, and cultural stereotypes and biases. 
TRANSCRIPT

Show Notes

​


[0:00] - Intro​ductions
  • Dr. Tammy Lin and Dr. Tiffany Leung introduce today’s The DEI Shift topic on the intersectionality of what it's like to be an Asian American female physician + leader + mentor, and some of the joys and challenges involved in getting there, such as the model minority myth, bamboo and glass ceilings, cultural stereotypes and bias. 
  • An all-Asian American team bringing this episode home! 
  • Introducing Dr. Antonia Chen 
    • Dr. Chen’s biography

[02:27] - Dr. Chen's a foodie too!

[2:46-4:21] - Dr. Chen's "Be the Change" segment 
  • Discusses “model minority myth”, trying not to stick to social norms as a female orthopedic surgeon
  • Creation of AAHKS video on “Inclusion and Mutual Respect of Women in the Orthopaedic Workplace”
  • Women in Arthroplasty group (only 2.6% women specializing in Arthroplasty)

[04:35-6:55] - Introducing Internal Medicine and HIV Specialist, Dr. Elisa Choi
  • Dr. Choi's biography

[07:00-10:33] - Dr. Choi’s remarks about representation
  • Appreciation for Pan-Asian crew 
  • ​Noticed a lack of Asian American leadership representation in decision-making roles especially in medicine; inspired her to be appointed to positions and Vice- Chair of the student
  • “Being the Change” in recent times was an effort to “step up” and represent

[10:33-12:19] - Dr. Choi continues to speak about her experience 
  • Meeting Tiffany and Tammy complemented to Dr. Choi’s efforts to “Be the Change”
  • Gradual effort that has morphed into realization that Asians need to be more vocal 

[12:19-12:52] - Tiffany reaffirms statement on need to be intentional​

[12:52-14:23] - Tammy congratulates Tiffany on new position and asks Dr. Chen about her journey to her accomplishments ​

[14:23-18:19] - Dr. Chen recounts influences and inspirations
  • Lived in Delaware, relates her childhood story on how a play inspired her to be a doctor, led her to medical school 
  • “I just want to be a doctor” - a point of branching 
  • Was told not to be a surgeon, especially as a female. However, she went into orthopaedics because she loved it so much despite what people told her. 
  • Lack of women in the field, proud of women trying to break the glass ceiling
  • “Bamboo ceiling”- a cap for Asian American representation  in the spine community 
    • “Bamboo Ceiling” information: https://www.alliant.edu/blog/bamboo-ceiling-asian-americans-and-myth-model-minority

[18:19-20:36] - Tiffany’s story  
  • Her father was an orthopedic surgeon and Chinese American immigrant
  • Affirms lack of attention given to diversity in leadership for Asians, there is a foundational problem.
  • Asks Dr. Choi’s thoughts 

[20:36-25:36] - Dr. Choi’s and Dr. Chen’s thoughts on diversity in leadership​ 
  • Applauds The DEI Shift for redefining May as “Pan-Asian” Heritage Month 
    • Has tried to make “Asian” be truly inclusive to all ethnicities of Asian 
  • Dr. Chen discusses orthopedics and intersecting identities and groups in orthopaedics 
    • Encouraging to see people come together via societies. Bonds occur between many under-represented groups
    • Hoping generations are diversifying in the pipeline
    • Some societies don’t collect ethnic data on members, numbers are not high

[25:36-27:33] - Tammy’s thoughts  ​ 
  • AAMC collects data-- 17.1% of the physician workforce are Asian American  
  • Lack of leadership diversity - Asian Americans getting stuck in the “middle” in terms of advancement. What are the missing factors?  Asian diversity in terms of women. Numbers are there, but are the missing “factors”?

[27:33-35:40] - Dr. Choi discusses the “double whammy” for Asian American women 
  • There is a glass ceiling and a bamboo ceiling (see link above for information on the intersection of these terms). Believes there is both internal and external factors leading to these “factors”
  • Believes the “model minority” myth leads to the internalization of Asians feeling complacent and can’t be established in a hierarchy
    • Accepting this externally opposed label redefines power structures, need to break out of this stereotype of being “obedient and quiet”
  • Implicit bias from external forces: sometimes not viewed as “leadership material” because of these stereotypes
  • Deep fear of failure among the community and a sense of being risk averse, there needs to be a willingness to take a risk, not to focus on winning or success

[35:40-42:31] - Dr. Chen’s thoughts on seeing beyond the “Model Minority” myth 
  • There is a question of “what’s your goal?”, our achievements in life have to do with external influences and innate drive
  • External influences come from where we grow up, different goals some want to “push forward” others just want to make money
    • Influenced by family
  • We need people to mentor and sponsor other Asian Americans
    • See beyond the model minority myth
  • Not used to self-promoting and self-recognizing that prevents people from going ahead
  • To be in a leadership, you may have to take an unpopular stance
    • Ingrained to be risk averse through culture
  • We need to break through our and other biases that people don’t need to look like each other to have a position of power.

[42:31-46:53] -  Dr. Choi discusses how East Asian cultural aspects such as Confucianism and Filial Piety can put Asians at odds of achieving more
  • Internalized turmoil if raised in immigrant family structure makes it hards to overcome barriers
  • Representation matters to create more opportunities and to set an example
  • Advocating for equal representation gives voice to those who can’t speak for themselves

[46:53-50:47] - Practical points and advice from Dr. Chen 
  • Develop a network to support, challenge and be by your side.
  • Find a mentor
  • Be a mentor
    • In OR, team must introduce themselves by name and position
    • Empower others who are “behind us”
    • Be an example
  • Takes time to develop this, it’s a dynamic process 

[51:03-56:46] - Practical points and advice from Dr. Choi
  • Be your #1 fan
    • Develop your own sense of security and self esteem
    • Take a stand and go out on a limb through these reflections
    • Recognize when there’s opportunities to improve and make changes
  • Be open to listening
    • Successful leadership comes from being able to empathize, and a servant for those they are leading 
    • Speak up and be a voice
    • Be willing to expand one’s network outside one’s silos
    • Empathize with people from all walks of life

[58:23-59:24] - Conclusion
  • Check out companion podcast: "At the Intersection of Asian + American + Male + Physician + Leader "
  • Special shout out to mentors, sponsors, advocates, and allies of Pan-Asian physicians
  • Social media handles: @thedeishift
  • Email: @thedeishift@gmail.com
  • www.thedeishift.com

[59:25] - Outro

Special thanks to Dr. Audrey Tsao, ACP Women in Medicine Initiative

Credits:
Co-hosts/Producers: Dr. Tammy Lin, Dr. Tiffany Leung
​Executive Producer: Dr. Tammy Lin
Co-Executive Producers: Dr. Pooja Jaeel, Dr. Tiffany Leung
Senior Producer: Dr. DJ Gaines
Assistant Producer: Deepti Yechuri
Editors: Tammy Lin, Deepti Yechuri
Production Assistants: Sanika Walimbe with special thanks to Ann Truong
Website/Art design: Ann Truong
Music: Chris Dingman

Disclaimer

.The DEI Shift podcast and its guests provide general information and entertainment, but not medical advice. Before making any changes to your medical treatment or execution of your treatment plan, please consult with your doctor or personal medical team. Reference to any specific product or entity does not constitute an endorsement or recommendation by The DEI Shift. The views expressed by guests are their own, and their appearance on the podcast does not imply an endorsement of them or any entity they represent. Views and opinions expressed by The DEI Shift team are those of each individual, and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of The DEI Shift team and its guests, employers, sponsors, or organizations we are affiliated with.

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  • Home
  • EPISODES
    • Table of Contents
    • SEASON 1 >
      • TRAILER
      • EPISODE 1 >
        • WELCOME TO THE DEI SHIFT
      • EPISODE 2 >
        • MEET THE DEI SHIFT: MORNING HANDOFF
      • EPISODE 3 >
        • MENTORSHIP & RECRUITMENT OF URIMS
      • EPISODE 4 >
        • Women in Medicine: "Faces Like Mine"
      • EPISODE 5 >
        • Disparity Exacerbation, Triggered by COVID-19
      • EPISODE 6 >
        • Hidden in the Data: Understanding Bias in Informatics
      • EPISODE 7A >
        • At the Intersection of Asian + American + Female + Physician + Leader (Pt. 1)
      • EPISODE 7B >
        • At the Intersection of Asian + American + Male + Physician + Leader (Pt. 2)
      • EPISODE 8 >
        • Promoting Inclusive Healthcare Environments for LGBTQ Patients
      • EPISODE 9 >
        • The Hidden Curriculum
      • EPISODE 10 >
        • Women Physicians Mid Career Transitions
    • SEASON 2 >
      • EPISODE 1 >
        • Minority Tax
      • EPISODE 2 >
        • A Native Narrative: Caring for American Indian and Alaskan Native Patients
      • EPISODE 3 >
        • Anti-Racism in Healthcare Education
      • EPISODE 4 >
        • Religious and Spiritual Diversity in Healthcare
      • EPISODE 5 >
        • Doctors As Patients
    • SEASON 3 >
      • EPISODE 1 >
        • Voices of URiM Premeds
      • EPISODE 2 >
        • Seize the DEI: Shaping the Future of I.M.
      • EPISODE 3 >
        • Digital Health Equity and Bridging the Divide
      • EPISODE 4a >
        • Food Insecurity- Part 1
      • EPISODE 4b >
        • Food Insecurity- Part 2
      • EPISODE 5 >
        • The Breadth of Addiction Medicine
      • EPISODE 6 >
        • The Power of Primary Care
      • EPISODE 7 >
        • Healthy Policy and Advocacy
    • SEASON 4 >
      • EPISODE 1 >
        • ACP IM 2022 Live
      • EPISODE 2A >
        • Trauma Informed Care Part 1
      • EPISODE 2B >
        • Trauma Informed Care Part 2
      • EPISODE 3 >
        • Pediatric-to-Adult Transitions of Care
      • EPISODE 4 >
        • Medical Misinformation and Disinformation
      • EPISODE 5 >
        • Immigrant/Migrant Health
      • EPISODE 6A >
        • Houselessness Part 1
  • Sponsored Podcasts
    • Obesity Management Series
    • Pain Management
    • Proud To Be GIM Week
  • Meet the Team
  • Medicine in Motion
  • Contact Us